The Big Bang - Where it all Began!

Join Odie and Rogue in their Hot Podracer as they navigate their way through discussing Star Wars media with each other and friends of Odrog Culture. They chat through their very own Hyperspace Hot-Takes where their love for Star Wars began! They invite the Star Wars community to argue HOT topics in Echoota, exploring who is more important to Star Wars - Maul or Jar Jar Binks? See Clonetrooper Cass and Syndicate Custom Creations battle it out in Episode 1. We finish off with some great questions from across our listeners in 'Honour the Gore'. This episode really IS a BIG BANG!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Oddrog Ultra presents Odrogs in Hot Pods. I'm Odie and I'm Rogue. And together, this is Oddrogs in Hot Pods. Here we go. Our first our first ever podcast episode. Episode one, Odd Rogs in Hot Pods. Absolutely mind. Um today in our episode, what we're going to be looking at is we're going to be looking at three segments. We've got our hyperbase hot takes, which we're going to be looking at the light side and the dark side of films. They're just the things that we both like, we both dislike. We've only got about 15 minutes on that bad boy. And then what we're going to do is we're going to launch into a Tutor, which is going to be where we invite two special guests onto the show with differing opinions. We have Clone Trooper Cass versus Syndicate Customs, Jar Jar Binks versus Darth Maul. Wow, that's gonna be that's gonna be one for the ages. And finally, uh to finish off our episode, we'll have Honor the Gore, where we invite people who follow us on Odrog Culture or through emails at oddrog.culture at gmail.com to send us through a little bit of a note or a letter or just a what's going on or a question that they want answered. Um and that section is of course called once again honor the gore. Because we honor the people. That's what we do. Exactly, exactly right. What's your vibe about the show today?

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Well, Hony, I'm excited because we I mean we've been talking Star Wars taking us all the way back to that faithful uh night in the cinema where we're two brothers just went on an incredible adventure. And I'm excited to revisit that today and talk about what it was like to watch that movie for the first time and the things that we really enjoyed and the things that we loved about it. And quite literally, it was like stepping into a brand new universe that opened us up to a whole lot of different things over our journey and over our life. And I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, our episode is the Big Bang, as in the start of something huge. But we're gonna be talking about our entry into Star Wars. So, of course, yes, it was 1999, the release of the Phantom Menace. We were both pumped up, we were both very, very excited. Nine years and 11 years of age. Yeah, that's right. Today we're gonna be talking about the Phantom Menace, light side versus dark side in hyperspace hot takes. Do we just launch in, rip the band-aid off? We're gonna get started. What I want you to do, listeners, is follow along. If there's a question that comes up, write it down, send it in. Rogue, what's the light side for you for the phantom menace?

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Wow, it's it's hard to choose. Look, I've probably got a top five. I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna go with the top five. I think for me, it was like I said earlier, it was like stepping into a whole new world. It was spellbinding, it was like taking a flight through the galaxy itself. You know, you you've got the scale, the sounds, the lighting, the cinematography, the various planets that we traveled to with our heroes. You know, the epic lightsaber battle in the halls of the royal palace on Naboo, which, you know, to me, no better lightsaber battle than the epic and very first Jewel of the Fates. You know, the the world building that was realistically on steroids, you know, our first look at the Republic. I think stepping into that world, you know, seeing the seeing the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. You know, the Jedi Jedi to me symbolized what medieval knights often stood for, honour, doing the right thing by people, defending the the the weak, holding, holding uh Yeah, I get you, holding responsibility. So yeah, that that's my first one was just that greater world that it opened open us up to. I bet you I know what your second one is. Darth Moore was probably the greatest villain in my eyes, um, of all Star Wars genre. And it's high it's highly debated, you know. And I we often had this conversation around, you know, is Darthmore actually greater than Darth Vader? You know, I I said it and I'll and I'll back it up. For me, Darth Moore was always the greatest and is the greatest villain. Um, and I'm so glad they didn't leave him dead at the bottom of the uh shaft. What the what shaft did he fall down? Big old shaft. We'll call it the big old shaft. The big old shaft that he fell down in the pantomime. But I don't know if you know this, but uh people can be stabbed, they can have be cut in half, um, and still come back to life. And you know, that's that's the exciting thing about this story. Um the pod racing scene, yeah, you know, again, a really highly contentious scene. Um, some people think it's uh just George Lucas falling in love with CGI, other people think it's an epic um racing pod racing battle, pure adrenaline, um, that was more or less the NASCAR of Star Wars, you know. So it's that was another really um amazing scene that I I enjoyed, and you know, I've talked about it already, but the Jewel of the Fates, it was the highlight of the movie, I would say probably the best moment in the um Star Wars Galaxy. You know, I re-watch and watch that battle time and time again. Seeing Darthmore wield that double-bladed lightsaber, you know, the first of its kind, the first in the world um to ever do it. You know, it's it was an incredible moment. So for me, that was the light side for for the Phantom Menace.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

They were they were probably my top five. Yeah, you've got some really big big moments in there. Not to mention, you know, you've got to drop this little element in there. It's the the movie that brought you your favorite Jedi, come on. Where's he at? Talk to us about your favorite Jedi.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Yeah, Plo Plocoon. You know, at that at that time, I wasn't as obsessed with Plocoon um early on. You know, I was I was blown away by his look and and the weirdness of him, you know, the darkness of something that can be so pure was something that drew me to him. But at that time, I feel like Plocoon was a relationship that I built over time, you know. Um, we're a relationship that started off slow and took our time to get acquainted with one another. And um over time I formed a much more uh obsession with him, which you know dominates until today. I'm looking around my my um my studio and I've got uh Focoon figures everywhere I look at.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, see, I think I was the same for well, I think especially now, like I've found a new love since my daughter fell in love with Ala Sakura um for Quinlan Voss. And so yeah, I've I've got a fair few notes as well around what I loved about the Phantom Menace, and I think it's that it's that like I love Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon is up there with my favourite Jedi along with Quinlan Voss. Like, I just think those two Jedi, they're the GOAT, man. They and this movie brought them both in. I mean, Quinlan Voss, the ultimate GLUP Shiddo, and to have him still existing in the Star Wars universe today, don't kill him off.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

You know, he's he's a bit like Klo Kuhn, though, you know, you barely saw him in episode one. Some might argue that you barely saw him at all. It's it's almost as if George put him in there, you know, in that fateful scene on Tatooine. But I agree with you with Qui-Gon Jin, like a the calm, rebellious Jedi. You know, he he represented everything the Jedi should have been. It's the epitome.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

But he says the thing that I love the most is at the start, Obian goes, I have a bad feeling about this, you know, like classic Star Wars line, bringing it in. And then Qui-Gon goes, keep your mind on the living force, focus on the here and now where it belongs. And I think that is actually the lesson that Anakin needs most in the first three films. He just needs to keep his mind on the living force, focus on the hero now of what he can control, what he can't control, and how important is that line, even in reality where we live day to day, and actually thinking about anxiety and worry and everything else that we put on ourselves, thinking about the future, Qui-Gon, the goat, he's got it for you. He says, keep your mind on the living force, focus on the hero now where it belongs. So when I saw it as a nine-year-old, Jar Jar Bing. Yeah, you do. I love you.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

You really're you're a low-key obsessed.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Palpatine is a slime ball. That's in my that's in my positives. Yeah. And the reason being is because Ian McDamid, like, great. Even as a pretend good guy. Ah then I also said Padawan Anakin looks cool. He looks so serious. He did look cool.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

Yeah. I feel like he was trying to be a little too serious though, like clearly suppressing some emotions in that last scene of uh The Phantom Menace.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

But the Padme reveal blew my mind as a kid. Like I did not know that at all. And Natalie Portman, Kira Knightley, and I've seen this online as well, but bringing Sabe into a movie, like bringing Kira Knightley back. There's some sweet comic runs of Vader and and um Sabe. And it was a comic book by Greg Pack who wrote it. But of course it's in the Marvel run, but it is a great story. Ewa McGregor is the man. Like, he's made for Obi-Wan Kenobi. You know, we talk about character like actors being made for roles. Ewa McGregor was just amazing. But my second last point has got to be that the soundtrack is just unreal. And finally, I think my last point, you're gonna love. Go on. Deliver deliver your final hot topic. Darthmore entrance. Yeah. Just come just coming up with supporting what you said. The epitome of villain.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

You know, he and he was made to be like that. He's got BVE, he's got big villain energy.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

That guy is like the top, the top of the villain food chain, my friend. He will eat for episodes and seasons.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

It is, it's so good. And now that he's got his own show, it's even it's even better. So let's launch into Dark Sods now. I might uh start us off and then we'll head into yours. But firstly, pod racing is absolute cinema. Like there's no doubt about it in terms of the sound, in terms of um the different kinds of pod races. I mean, we're we're talking about being in a hot pod, you know, which is a take on pod racing. Indeed. But this is where it begins. And I love it, I think I love it now as an adult. Yeah. As a kid, I actually didn't enjoy it as much. No, I agree. And it was my least favourite part of the film. So I think there's a and it I think it gives the movie a bit of a pacing issue, or there there's something else that's a bit of a pacing issue.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Yeah, it feels it feels clunky. I agree with you. As an adult, I can appreciate its its position in the lore and in the the overall storyline. But I'd be lying if I said as a kid I didn't watch it, just wanting it to be over so we could get to the next scene. To me, it it it's it's almost as if the pod racing scene took too much time in the in the film. You know, did it did we really need three laps and all the drama in between and you know, or a sing shooting at the pod racing and or watching the pod races and the sand people shooting at the pod races? If it came out today, you know, would we call it just a filler in the film?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Oof, that's a that's a bold statement. I think it's got its purpose, to be honest. Like I think it has to show that Anakin has this ability to tune into the force. It has to show us how he can save them.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Do you think it showed that enough?

SPEAKER_02 11:40

No, or do you think that's just assumed? Because I don't think it's the pod race is that. The pod race is the example of that, and I think it's definitely needed in the film for that sense that he must save them and support them in that process. But it's also really important in terms of him meeting Padme for the first time. But I still feel like there's a pacing issue somewhere, and I'm not saying it's the pod race exactly, I think it's absolute cinema. I think now looking at it, I love it, and I think it's so cool, and I'm glad that it's not shorter because that whole sequence is just unbelievably cool. The addition with all the characters, like you mentioned, Oracing, come on, like that character is so cool. That was pretty amazing, especially especially as a young adolescent boy. Keep that to yourself. There's a whole lot of discussion around scripting issues. I didn't think personally, as a nine-year-old, I thought the script was great and I loved the film and it got me into Star Wars. And I still think the script is fine, but it makes Anakin boast about 3PO, you know, and it makes Anakin boast about so much. And he's just in the film, Anakin becomes this character that isn't incredibly likable, and there's stuff that I'm going to talk about later that I think is really is probably the worst thing about this film. Here's another side note. I don't think that if Anakin destroyed didn't destroy the the Trade Federation trade ship, I don't think that Padme would even be interested in him at all.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Oh, you think Padme is impressed by you know blowing up the Trade Federation.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

The way she looked at him in that last scene when he's looking cool AF as a putter one.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

It's a wonder, isn't it, really? She's twisted. That's that's the conversation we need to be having, really. It's about how inappropriate Padme is as you know the desired the desired woman. That's that's the conversation we need to be having. I don't think we do need that conversation. Maybe next season we'll see. We'll see what the appetite is for the for our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Um but yeah, but then we go back to the script, right? And I talk about how Anakin boasts. That's so on point for his character also to then take claim to that and not be completely honest. Oh, yeah, but I mean it's the scripting is good.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yeah, I agree, but it's also so very human. Like how often do we take claim for things? You know, look at this fantastic table I built. Yeah, but you you got it in IKEA with you know instructions, and it was all basically put together before you before he got it. You know, I've I think Anakin represents a lot of the human race out there that can relate to him. And I mean at the end of the day, he's a nine-year-old boy, you know, he's a busy guy. You can't expect him to build a robot, build a pod race, win a race, you know, win the win the girl. That's a lot on a on a nine-year-old shoulders.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

But I think the worst thing that come to come from this movie is the the critics. Yes, it wasn't a perfect film, but neither was Return of the Jedi. But I don't think anybody deserves what Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd went through post this process. Like to see Ahmed Best come back and do some great stuff as Kallaran Beck was really cool. Yeah, it was. And also the inclusion of Kaloran Beck in like a lot of people get confused that they think Star Wars made a mistake and put a different actor for Mace Windu, but it's actually Kallar and Beck coming to the show.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

Sounds like those casual dad fans again.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

I think like the Kallar and Beck stuff in them in Mando was sick. Yeah, it was. And then I'm also glad that Jake Lloyd is popping up here and there and um being included within the Star Wars community, as he always has been, but I just think that they both deserve a lot for all that they brought. And once again, like Jaja Binks being one of the monumental characters of Star Wars sagas, um which we'll get into in a tutor. Critical character. And both actors did a phenomenal job, and I just think they don't they didn't deserve what happened to them, and I really feel for them. But it's great to see some new stuff coming out. And also, I don't know if you know this, but Ahmed Best recently wrote a Kalaran Beck, Jar Jar Binks comic crossover, which you also should check out. It's great. Yeah, cool. But anyway, over to you. What's your dark side in the hyperspace hot takes?

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Wow, certainly not to the depth that that you went into there, Odie. But I think I mean you touched on it briefly there, that you know, the the particularly the pod race scene didn't allow the movie to run smoothly. And I think ultimately George was trying to achieve too much in the one film. Yeah. You know, you've got trade negotiations, you've got Senate debates, you've got slapstick humour.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yeah, a lot.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

And they don't always blend smoothly, you know, and it was it was always going to be a challenge, I think, because I feel like obviously this was the first Star Wars film that Lucasfilm had done since the original trilogy. And so there's always, I guess, uh an enticement and you know, the temptation to really go big. And I think there was purely just too much being tried being being fit into the movie. And it didn't, it it's it felt a little bit clunky at times. So I would actually agree with you. And it's almost as if the movie doesn't pick an audience that it tries to pick all of them, it tries to appeal to too many um demographics in the film, and I think that it pulls it away from the natural storytelling that it could have been that you know, it's one of the things Star Wars fans still say is that they love the simplicity of the original trilogy, and I think it tried to fit too much into one film.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And I think there are some things in there that I do disagree with, but look, at the end of the day, I think as a nine-year-old, I absolutely loved it. Well, especially Jar Jar Brink Binx, but you know, we could get into that for a whole time.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

But I probably don't heap praise on Jar Jar Binx as much as what you do. I think he was a character that I felt often uh took away from the moment in the film and often became a distraction for maybe the the deeper meaning. So there's you know, there's tension in a film because you need to feel that as the audience, and sometimes in an attempt to bring comic relief, it actually just really undermined that moment. I don't look, I don't think he ruined the movie, but he exposed its its identity crisis. I think he detracted far too much from the from the main storyline. My other hyperspace hot take was that you know the young a young Anakin Skywalker felt disconnected from Vader. Yep. You know, the concept is is strong. To show innocence before corruption is is a brazen thing to try and deliver. Yeah. My second last dark side hot take is that really the Jedi are kind of a problem in the galaxy. They're arrogant, they're politically entangled, they're emotionally detached. Definitely. They're essentially an institution that's not overly warm to bond with or create a connection with, where they dismiss Anakin's potential. Ironically, they actually fear Anakin, they fear what he might become. And yet, fear is something that is forbidden for Jedi. But yet the whole council sends this message that they're fearful of Anakin or conveys that in the film. And so they're essentially contradicting their own beliefs by fit by almost fearing the chosen one, fearing that he's too old. You know, yeah. For such a word that is so should be so distant from the Jedi Order, they sure do use it and embody it a lot. You know, one might one might argue is this is this film actually secretly about institutional failure? Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's got to be an element that George Lucas included. But what was your last point? My last one is that the wasted potential was everywhere in the film. You know, Darth Moore, this dark, mysterious force that we spoke about earlier. He exits too early. You know, and you and I even spoke about that as young, as young kids. You know, we wish Darth Moore survived. You look at Pad Mayamadala, she isn't really fully realised in the film. I think it lacks the depth to get into the character a little bit more. If episode one was made in today's society, I would think that she would probably have a much more significant role and be a much more impactful character. Not saying that she wasn't impactful.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Well, yeah, she's massively impactful, but especially in all the new books. You had another character you really love. Talk to me about Obi-Wan.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Obi-Wan Kenobi. For such a for such an iconic character, I feel like he is sidelined for a lot of it. He he he almost plays second fiddle to Quagon. And again, I think there was opportunity to explore that character. But yeah, for me that they were the two key points. And I think um, you know, the movie introduced some really incredible characters and some really incredible storylines and pieces, but it didn't always know how to use them, yeah, in my opinion. Yeah, it's fair enough. Um, and I think, like I said, Lucasfilm Redeem themselves with the reintroduction of Darthmor. Massively. You know, maybe we'll get a bit more of an origin story about Padme one day, but who knows?

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah, maybe. But you know, as I said, there are those uh three books. I think it's Queen's Peril, Queen's Hope, Queen's Gambit. I'm yet to read them, but looking forward to it eventually. Look, that was our hyperspace hot takes. Email us, DM us. What did you think? Uh please let us know. Some interesting points. We're about to launch into the next segment. Well, we invite Clone Tripper Cast and Syndicate Customs. Let's go. Today I get the privilege of opening our first ever debate. Jar Jar Binks is more important to Star Wars than Maul. For the positive, we have Syndicate Customs, an international superstar when it comes to customizing figurines, working with a range of sculptors and artists. Um, Syndicate, would you like to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Uh hello, yes. Uh, I'm Syndicate. Uh we are in Australia. Uh Syndicate is pretty much made of me and my wife. Um we basically uh work with a range of amazing talented sculptors, digital designers, uh, and patrons, and we bring all that together to create like a superstore for people to select um items to create their favorite characters that potentially Hasbro won't make or don't have time to make. And we just bring, I guess, People's imaginations to life in in figurine form. Um yeah, so it's just my wife and I in Australia, and we're here to help and do the best we can for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Great, thank you so much. It's great to have you here. Rogue, over to you.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yes, Odie. Today we're joined by Clone Trooper Cash. She's bringing a bit of dark side energy, rocking a red lightsaber, but balancing it out by choosing Naboo as her home planet. Pearly for its beauty, which is pretty perfect contrast. Her favorite character is Maul, which definitely lines up with today's debate. She's also a big fan of tech from the Bad Batch, so there's a sharp tactical edge in there too. Cass's got the passion, the perspective, and some seriously cool Star Wars moments behind her. Check her out on her Instagram handle at Clone TrooperCass. Cass, can you tell us a bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, absolutely. Hello. My name is Cassidy. Um, I'm a huge Star Wars nerd, obviously. I love this fandom and this community because everybody has been so kind, regardless of what perspective. I enjoy making content about Star Wars, whether it be about Lego Star Wars or unboxing like blind mystery boxes and things of that nature. I also just love talking about it. I got my first lightsaber this year, so just really loving everything Star Wars.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Great to have you on the show, Cass. Odi, how would you like to handle this?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

On Ichuta, there are three points that Rogue and I are going to mark you on. That one is Star Wars Law References. Number two is clear evidence, and three is just the delivery of the points in the round. You'll be marked out of five for each point per round. Each debater should get a mark out of 15 per round, equating to a final mark of 45. This will define our victor. So to get us kick started, we have on the positive team for the argument, Syndicate Customs bringing in the start for Jar Jar Binks is more important to Star Wars than all. Take it away.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Let's set up the picture. We've got a trade blockade, episode one. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are on the Trade Federation ship. They make their way down, obviously, onto Naboo. They are on the other side of the planet, away from Queen Amadella, and they meet Jar Jar Binx. Now, meeting Jar Jar Binks means they meet the Gungans, which they then get that ship to go through the planet's core, making their way to Naboo, saving the princess, and getting her off world. Without Jarja Binx, they would never have met the Gungans. They would never have been there in time to save Queen Amadella, thus continuing Queen Amadella's journey to create the Star Wars that we know. Without Jarja, they wouldn't have been able to save the princess. And that would be my first point.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Very well said. So, because like part of my like not research, but like my notes that I have was about the impact on Star Wars as a whole. So while he addressed one movie of Star Wars, I think Maul is such an intense character that has been conveyed throughout the storyline in a much greater capacity. While I do respect that Jar Jar did play a huge part in episode one and with the Queen, and there's still so much story and so much lore to Star Wars outside of just the one movie, which is why I believe that Maul is far more important to the galaxy and to the Star Wars timeline. He serves an important role in canon Star Wars as he's sustained an active influence on the government and its power in the galaxy, whether directly or indirectly, while under Palpatine's assistance or when he broke free from that. And he's had an ongoing storyline throughout all of Star Wars, especially right now with his own show being debuted. Whereas I feel Jar Jar Binks has had isolated moments of impact at the first movie and in some episodes of the Clone Wars, but not a lasting control in the galaxy.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

But the simple fact is that with Jar without Jar Jar, you had that conception, that was that moment of meeting Jar Jar that brought Star Wars into where Star Wars is. It wouldn't fulfill without Jar Jar, without the Queen getting to Coruscant, Palpatine's plans wouldn't even have started. That trade federation would completely dominate Naboo and perhaps a different people would pan out. But the Star Wars you know now, if it wasn't for Jar Jar and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan saving the princess, we wouldn't get the start. The incept the the inception, the conception of Star Wars that we know. Let's launch into round number two. Alright, right, point number two. Um so we we save the queen, uh we then have engine troubles, and we get to Tatooine where we then have to go find the engine. Now, point number two is they took Jarja with him, uh, with them all to go find an engine. If it wasn't for Jarja Binx eating that frog thing, and then Sabulba basically almost about to beat him up, Anakin wouldn't come over to help, and therefore they would have never met Anakin if it wasn't for Jar Jar Binks.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Ooh. That's a really good call. All right, Clone Trooper Cass, over to you. Rebuttal time.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

That was really good. While I do agree with your point about Jar Jar's happy accident um on Tatooine, I also feel that there could have been an alternate scenario had that not happened. Qui-Gon, you know, being force sensitive. Um, I feel that while you argue that that's the reason they met Anakin, I still feel that there still could have been an opportunity for Gui-Gon to still meet Anakin through the force. And I mean, they were there for parts for his ship. And so I also feel that regardless of that happy accident with Sabulba, that they would have gone around to the different vendors on Tatooine to try to find the parts that they were needing. And with what they needed for that ship being kind of more niche, I feel that they still would have met Wato and Anakin because he had access to those parts. And through the will of the force, he would have sensed Anakin. So I think that we could still have an alternate timeline where Qui-Gon meets Anakin without the happy accident of Jar Jar. Point number two for why I think Maul is more important to the Star Wars timeline is because of the power and agency that he builds throughout his time, in you know, whether it be the Clone Wars or even through his current show, Maul Shadow Lord, right now. It's something that Jar Jar doesn't have the capacity to do. So with Maul, he's been able to build the Shadow Collective as we're currently seeing right now in the Maul Shadow Lord animated series. But he was able to take over Mandalore and defeat Pre-Vizla, connect with multiple crime syndicates in order to do so, which takes power and authority and confidence, something that Jar Jar lacks. He was able to fight Palpatine, which I think is so crazy in how powerful Palpatine is, and the fact that he was able to do that and then still not only recover. I mean, his brother didn't make it, but he was able to continue on, even though it was filled with rage. But the fact that he's able to still continue to have a journey through the Star Wars timeline, through the many years of the Clone Wars, and now in his uh own show, I think that shows that he's a valuable character to the timeline and is quite essential.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I completely see what you're saying. But I feel everything that Maul has done has not been as amazing and awesome as what's happened. It hasn't affected the Star Wars timeline. Like I understand you can turn around and say, oh, but you know, Qui-Gon could have done this or could have done that, but we have the timeline, we have the movies, and we don't have any what if, and we don't know what the what if could be, and it could be what you said, but at the end of the day, if it wasn't for Jar Jar, we wouldn't have Anakin or Vader or the Galactic Empire.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Really good points all around. Round two was an absolute banger. Round one got us kick-started off, and we're going to come down now to our final round, our round three. Uh, Rogue, how are you feeling about this one?

SPEAKER_03 30:45

It's gonna come down to the wire, but um super excited. The the rebuttals have been full of full of detail as well, so it has made me question the the scoring, which is exactly the position we want to be in coming into the last rounds.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

It's round three. Okay, take it away, syndicate customs.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

So basically, without Jar Jar Binks, like I said in the rebuttal, there would he would not have voted for a no confidence against Chancellor Valorum to put Senator Palpatine as the new Chancellor of the Republic, which he then created the Galactic Empire. Now, this is the thing. Even if we go by theories, which we've been confirmed that perhaps Jar Jar was a Sith Lord working with Palpatine, so he would have had complete knowledge of Padme, Naboo, of Anakin, where Anakin was, uh, and he knew what Palpatine's plans were. So all these little happy coincidences, perhaps me personally, I don't believe in coincidences, but perhaps this was all orchestrated to meet Princess, to meet Anakin, to create the Galactic Empire, and that was all Jar Jar's plan with Palpatine all along.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

While I do very appreciate that perspective and understanding Jar Jar's importance, because that is not completely the argument here. He is important. However, it's the quantity of importance. And I think it's important for us to remember that, like you said earlier, there are hypotheses that we could have, like Jar Jar being a Sith Lord, but that has not been confirmed. And I think it's also important to validate that in the production of Star Wars timeline, we did not start with the prequels. And so to say that his storyline is important to, you know, the Death Star being created and us having Vader and so forth, while true in storyline order, that's accurate. However, in the creation of Star Wars, we did start with the original trilogy where all of those things already existed. We just didn't have the prequel knowledge to know how it existed. However, though, it did exist. So that prequel series timeline could have gone in any direction because we already had the original trilogy. For my last point, I would like to capitalize on the character impact that Maul has had on other characters in the Star Wars timeline. I think it's important to note that Maul has interacted with a great variety of individuals. Obi-Wan Kenobi, obviously being the most notable, and his long hatred for that and how that actually shapes Obi-Wan's history, you know, always trying to protect Anakin as the chosen one. You know, Obi-Wan living in Tatooine after Order 66 so that he can make sure that, you know, um that sorry, Luke was that Luke was okay and that nothing happened to him. And then also the impact that Maul has on other characters, like, for example, we have Ahsoka and Ezra, where he always tries to make them his apprentice because he has this bigger vision for what's about to happen, and he wants to seek their assistance in making those storylines happen. And so I think it's interesting because he's such a manipulative person and he continues to try to manipulate people in different timelines. Obviously, Obi-Wan through a greater span timeline, but he tries to manipulate Ahsoka, he tries to manipulate Ezra and his temptation to the dark side. And so it's important to note that Maul's history is not just during one time period. It spans between the prequels, the Clone Wars, Rebels, during Solo, and now during his own show, right now. So I think it's just very important for us to note that Maul changes people and has an impact on characters in the storyline, whereas Jar Jar kind of just fills space in the storyline, not necessarily changing and having an impact on the greater amount of characters in Star Wars.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Um, I just I just want to say that Maul is probably one of my favorite characters, and everything is amazing. Um, and Jar Jar probably isn't one of my favorite characters. But that being said, I believe that Jar Jar is the most important person that basically brought Star Wars as a whole to where it is. If it wasn't for Jar Jar, like I said, so many things would not have happened and we wouldn't have the story that we have today. Whereas with Maul, yes, we have some incredible stories and some spectacular moments and character building of so many different characters and worlds and cultures. Yes, he's impacted it greatly, but I don't think we would have the Star Wars we would have without Jar.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Wrapping it up, being bang boom. This has been a this has been incredibly difficult to mark. It has been a huge battle of of lore and and character and and the importance of such things and the impact of every other characters in there, and it was huge. Let's talk it out. Rogue, would you like to go first and tell us what your thoughts are about the debate?

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Well, it was it was heated throughout. I mean, each each round went blow for blow, knock for knock. Um, the rebuttals were really, really strong. I must admit, Syneca, you had me lost there at Jar Jarz's Sith Ord. I know it's I know it's one I know it's one um opinion that a few people have. Did have a little chuckle and I think our fans will as well, because it it is a outlandish sort of claim. And for for round three, that made it really tough to give you the top points in that one with regard to having that Star Wars law reference and and clear evidence. Cass, I thought, you know, original trilogy rebuttal really helped level the playing field throughout the debate. It literally was neck and neck for me. And look, I have my own personal opinions on this, but it it's it doesn't really matter because it's not my debate. But the final score that I gave both uh Clintribu Cass and Syndicate was 39 for Cass, 38 Syndicate. So it was literally neck and neck throughout the entire debate. Really, really hard to to to judge this one in the end. That's that's what I landed on. How about you, Odie?

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Each round I gave both of you full points for your evidence. Um, I was a bit opposite to Rogue on this because I enjoyed the Darth Jar Jar reference and the fact of the launching into the elements of what if contriver casse, you mentioned what if in there, and I really liked how it it went along further. I mean, you could talk about Darth Jar Jar in the Lego series, the rebuild the galaxy uh series, which has been fun to watch. Um, so in a way, that is a Star Wars lore reference, and I actually marked it for it. Oh I like an EU reference as well. It was a tough one. I did mark you both at 39. So you came in as a draw with me. So it's actually one point in it. Turns out there is only one victor. Clone Trooper Cass, you have come through with the win today. Congratulations. Massive. Not the way I would have thought it would have gone. Rogue, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, now I'm having second thoughts because um it it really was neck and neck. You can't say both are equally as important, gotta be decisive as well. I'm sitting pretty happy. Whether there's some bias there on Maul, we'll never know. But um, yeah, it was clone trooper cast for me by one point scraping home there. But uh equally well done, Syndicate Customs. You presented some really strong, strong arguments and strong points. It was hard to pick.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

That's okay. It was a tough one, but there is only one winner. Well done to Clone Trippercast. You're going to get a shirt, an assert, a shirt from our website, and also a certificate to say you have won the tutor. Congratulations. And Syndicate, you'll get something along the lines of a thank you as well and catch Syndicate Customs at Syndicate underscore customs underscore creations on Instagram. You always go on his website, which is www.syndicatecustoms.com.au, and check out everything that he and his wife do. Fantastic. And thank you very much, Clone Trooper Cass.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

It's been amazing having you on the on the show today. And for our fans out there that want to check Clone Trooper Cass out, it's at Clone TrooperCass Instagram handle. Go and have a look. Enjoy some of the stories and some of the information that Cass presents. Um if you're a Star Wars fan, that's definitely the Instagram page for you to follow. Thanks very much, guys. Really appreciate you both being on the show today, and I'll certainly be following both of you from here on out.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Absolutely. But if you think that Syndicate Customs took out the win today, you can vote on our Instagram at oddrog underscore culture. Or if you think Clone Trooper Cast should have won and you're happy with what happened, let us know. But now it's time for Honor the Gore where you have your say. Let's get ready. It is honor the gore time. Honor the gore time. That's where we invite you, our listeners, to write into us. You can write into us on Instagram at oddrog underscoreculture. Or rogue, you can email us. What's our email? Odrog.culture at gmail.com. You better believe it. The first question we have is from the village Jedi who's on Instagram. You should follow her along. She also runs her own podcasts and has done some great mall reviews. What sort of lightsaber colour would you have and why?

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Well, I mean, it really comes down to you know how our own perceptions of our personality and who we are as as people translate to, or who we would be as a Jedi, translate to what colour lightsaber we'd have. Um look, I was personally, I was really torn. I was torn between uh having a yellow lightsaber, like my favourite Jedi, Plocoon. His OG lightsaber was yellow. Um, and then I was torn between that and green. You know, for me, I liked what the yellow lightsaber represented, a balanced Jedi, one that can see things in a more objective light between both the dark and the light. But it's protection over aggression. I really liked and that knowledge and real world real world skills are valued. Yep. So I liked the idea of the yellow lightsaber, represents vigilance, responsibility, independence. Very much, you know, sums up myself as a as a person. But then you get the green bladed lightsaber, which is about feeling the living force and it's about spiritualism, and it's about connecting with nature around us. Um, and so I was really torn between yellow and green. Um, I've always said yellow because it's my favourite Jedi, Low Coon, but green because of the other parts of me and who I am, I think would really strengthen that. How about you, Odie? What what would you choose? I'm a I'm a green guy.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

I'm all green.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Oh, straight to the green. Look at it. So decisive, so such a such an odie thing to say.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Yeah, I'm straight in there. I love green. Green's my favourite colour. I'm a I'm a dark green guy.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

However, I like a dark green. Is dark green even an option? Is that an option?

SPEAKER_02 42:14

If you if you read the Dark Horse comics, you'll see um that's okay. Wow, what a school is Quinlan Quinlan Voss's master, Master Tholm, has a dark green lightsaber. It's in the hyperspace walk um comic that you have, actually.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Awesome. Good shout out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've I've I've literally got it right here.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yeah, check out his lightsaber colour in that comic book. It is sick. Dark green colour. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Um, but also I don't mind a bit of cyan, you know?

SPEAKER_03 42:39

Tell us why. Why why green? Is it because it's your the lightsaber of your favorite godlike Qui Gon or Oh my boy, don't bring him up.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

You make me teary. I think it's because, yeah, a lot of a lot of great Jedi have the colour green, but it's also my favourite colour. And it makes me feel calm and and at peace, and it's also a colour of healing, and and it's like what you've done your research around the lightsaber colours and their meaning. I used to know, I can't remember off the top of my head, but um here's one that you'd like, Odie.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

And this is a quag online. Green isn't about controlling the force, it's about listening to it. There you go. Yeah, yeah. I'm right.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

I knew you'd like I'm right there.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

From what you said earlier about quag on, I knew you'd like. Do we want to go through what the other lightsaber colours mean for the fans, or are we just I reckon we could get into it another time for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Oh, we said if listeners want to know, they can always email us or DM us. That's what this that's what this segment's all about. On to our next question. This is from Lone Trooper9. Are you loving Maul Shadow Lord? I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

I'm loving the animation, I'm loving the style. Yeah, really leaning into that um that BVE, that big villain energy we were talking about earlier. They really lean into him as a as a villain. The thinking side of him, the strategic side. Also, the tragic villain is still there, you know. The mole that was cut in half is still there. You can tell he's still battling with his demons. And there's something real about how they're depicting me. Maul isn't there. You know, I'm also really liking the fact that the artistry of Maul himself seems to be much more defined than any other character in the show. I don't know if you've noticed that, or whether I'm tripping, or whether I'm just so obsessed with Darth Maul that I think he's done better than all the other characters in the show. But I'd encourage our listener and you already to have a look at him next time you're watching. He just seems much more defined than the other characters. So I'm loving it. Tell me what your impressions are.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

It's so good to have new Star Wars back on the yeah back on the silver screen. And just having the more Mondays come on. Like any opportunity to see Star Wars, I love. And you know that, like it doesn't matter what comes out. I'm a huge fan of watching Star Wars and the experience of Star Wars, but there's something else about this show. As an artist, I absolutely love the fact that they've used actual artist pieces in the backgrounds. You can tell even the work around voiceover, and I've got a couple of friends who do voiceover. Yeah. And there's there is an absolute art form to it. And the fact that, and I don't know if you know this, Rogue, but Sam Whitwa's screams are actually in Darthmore's lightsabers sounds.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Yes, I saw that the other day on an Instagram post that blew my mind.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

So the next question now from Stax Rebo. Yes, I saw it. A great cosplayer, a great artist, a great co-host on Rise of the Glove Shido. Check her out on Instagram. Hey Stax. She has asked us what is your favourite Star Wars animal?

SPEAKER_03 45:27

Yeah, definitely Nexu from Attack of the Clones, Pure Instinct and Aggression, Survival, True Alien Predator. If you're gonna ride into war, if you're gonna go to battle, you want to mob a Nexu. I don't know what a group of Nexu is, but I'm gonna find out. That's the animal you want. Yep. Veractyl out of Revenge of the Sith, uh, the animal that Obi-Wan's riding into battle. I mean, that that animal would be pretty sick.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Surprisingly emotional. But what about the sound? Come on. That sound in Revenge of the Sith is so good. I love that animal.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

You know, this is the only lizard in cinema that really truly made me feel something. Got the classic Rancor, iconic, terrifying, also weirdly tragic. They have a sense of loyalty too, you know, to their keeper. You know, as a fellow zoo keeper, I look at the um it's hard not to relate to animal, but um no, for me, definitely nexu. Yeah. How about you, Oddy? What do you reckon? Um, I would have to go the Viractyl. I I feel like there was another there was something.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Well, there's reek the reek is cool, but apparently it's supposed to be fed as a herbivore, and then it's calm and peaceful. But what the Geonosians do is they feed it on meat, which makes it aggressive. It's kind of like chooks.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

It is a chick, actually, it's it's a it's like a lot of animals in the animal kingdom. I I would have thought you'd go with the the space whales.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Oh, do I do like the perg whales?

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Yeah, the pergam deep force connection, mystical. You know, are they more connected to the force than the Jedi? You know, like the this is nature versus technology and space travel. Like there's these these are the animals, mate. I thought that that would be your choice, but yeah, good one, good shout.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

Well, I didn't really think about it. It's gonna go in hard with the Viractor, but then you mentioned Reek, and there is like there's a whole concept about the Reek that I would love to explore.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

Yeah, let's maybe we should do that in a later episode. Mythos wouldn't get it wouldn't get a mention.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Dude love a mythosaur. See, I thought about that too. And I know like in Mando season three and seeing the mythosaur in the water, and it's huge and terrifying and so cool. But you're right, it is such a hard thing to do um to choose our favorite animals. But what are you locking in, Odie?

SPEAKER_03 47:33

What are you locking in?

SPEAKER_02 47:34

I've I've got to go just because of the sound design, the colour, the cozy kind of feathers that it looks like, but the veractyl. I'm gonna have to go the viractyl. And plus my dark green lightsaber would look sick on the back of the Well, now you're talking.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Now you're talking, yeah. We're talking aesthetics now, and you've just nailed it.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Yeah. Although a dark-skinned rancor, I would like to also look sick on. Like bring bring back the book of Boba Fett.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

I want to see you bursting out of the water with a green lightsaber ignited on a mythosaur. That's what I want to see. Hey, the Mandalore himself, Odie, Odie the Mandalore. Can you imagine? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Hey, I think that's all that we've got time for.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Thanks, guys. Awesome, awesome contributions.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

We've loved having our first episode, the big, big bang. A shout out to Clone Tripper Cass and to Syndicate Customs Creations. You can find them on Instagram. You can go on to Syndicate Customs website, and what a great start to our season. We're looking forward to next episode where we're going to explore the original trilogy in our hyperspace hot takes. Then we're going to try and uh run a little bit of a debate on the original trilogy where we're going to have some special guests come in again and finally have your say. Honor the gore. That's all going to be next episode. We can't wait to have you there. Thank you so much. May the force be with you. And also with you, Odie. May the force be with you, everyone.